Sustainability from the Bottom Up

Welcome to the Wednesday Interview and a special type of plastic pollution. Those nappies we use to keep our babies clean seem to be part of a problem which starts at birth. Today's interview guest explains the stats. He shows how we can reduce the impact of disposable nappies by replacing them with a product which can be reused and recycled. Plastic pollution is not the only thing that can start from birth. The circular economy can start there too.

Nappies or Diapers?

Anthony (A)

Today, I'm welcoming Guy Schanschieff. He is the founder of Bambino Mio, and Chair of the Nappy Alliance. Guy, welcome.

Guy Schanschieff MBE (G)

Good morning.

You’ll have gathered we're going to talk about nappies, or what some listeners to the podcast call diapers. And, as far as sustainability is concerned, that's a product which has had a bad press because the market is dominated by disposables. They contain plastic, and apart from the pollution that that causes, they are all too often flushed when they shouldn't be, and they block drains, and they block sewers. So Guy, how has your business model addressed these problems of sustainability or non-sustainability?

Reusable

We're offering an alternative which is reusable now. It's washable nappies for parents. And certainly, as you say, as more parents become concerned about plastics, about waste, then the nappy issue has risen up the agenda and demand for the products has never been greater.

Some of the stats, one point you touched on in your introduction, but 1% of all plastic production goes into making single use nappies, disposable nappies. And also, globally 90 billion nappies are thrown away a year in the world, and reusables, the alternative we're offering, uses 98% fewer raw materials and generates 99% less waste.

Right. Well, you say where business leads society follows if you've got a better mousetrap, as they say, if you've got a better product, then you will persuade the consumer but the key thing, of course, is whether this product is cost effective. It's whether it's competitive on the cost front.

Cost-Effective

And I think that’s another big area for us. Parents save around £1,500 when choosing reusable nappies, washable nappies, for a baby and even more if you use them for a second child. So, it's sort of win win in that you're not creating waste. We're not creating plastic to make the nappies, but at the same time, we're saving money. It's proper Circular Economy stuff because, as I touched on, once the nappies have been used for one baby, they can be used for a second baby. We even get customers sending us photos, I won't say they're in a particularly good state, but who've used them for six or seven babies. So it is proper reuse. And I think the use, we know and it's well documented, that resource use is responsible for 90% of biodiversity loss, 50% of carbon emissions. So reuse, is so important for us to address some of the issues that we're facing.

And we had our family. Quite a lot of years ago, we used squares of Terry Towelling, and we washed them and we used them again. So, what is the difference between that and the product that you're offering now?

Modern reusable nappies are a very different, I’ll sort of point that out to start with, no complicated folding, no pins, no soaking. There's an array of materials out there, everything from bamboo to cotton, to all sorts of fabrics depending on sort of level of absorbency that you require and what consumers want and beautiful patterns sealing with Velcro so you haven't got, sort of, the plastic pants you need to you need to fit over the top, the sanitisers to wash the nappies, which can be washed at low temperatures. So, the experience of using reusable nappies now is a much more pleasurable experience, and I think, if you go on social media, Instagram photos, bloggers with many, many followers who are using reusable nappies and posting about it, shows how actually attractive and pretty the products are.

Cotton and other Materials

Right, well, Terry Towelling of course is made from cotton, and cotton is a product which has quite a bit of a, quite a big environmental footprint. Are you still using cotton? You mentioned a range of materials.

There's a range of materials and I think the issue is that whatever material you use, and whatever you do as a business, just by existing you're having that environmental impact, I think as a company, and we see this across companies within the industry in general. There is a move to improve that. We're not saying it's perfect. There are issues with cotton, there's issues with bamboo, there's issues with microfibre, there's issues with a lot of the fabrics that are available. Each have their own different, slightly different, impact.

Recycled Materials

But clearly compared with the issues around disposables, they are a lot better. I don't think any of us would claim that any materials we used are absolutely perfect, but we, within Bambino Mio my company, we have a big drive at the moment to use recycled material and reusing some of the materials that are out there. It’s well documented that other manufacturers within the industry will use the plastic from bottles to recycle into fabrics that are used. So I agree, I think there are no materials out there that are perfect, that there are impacts for all of those, but I think as an industry what we're trying to do is improve all the time and make that better. But actually, if you look at it from the impact from the alternative disposables, the jump is quite great.

Business, Consumers or Government?

Right if we move on and we look at sustainability from a broader perspective, you say where business leads society follows. You also say that governments should not be relied upon to take the lead so much in dealing with the climate crisis, but more should be put on business, but surely business is hamstrung. It's in the hands of the consumer and given that there is a lot of scepticism amongst consumers, surely it's only governments which are actually going to be able to take the actions which are necessary?

I think governments can lead. Governments can show that leadership. But it is actually only businesses that are going to deliver, that are going to deliver the solution. So I mean, ours is quite an interesting industry and that I've been, as you alluded to at the beginning, I started the Nappy Alliance, our trade organisation, about 20 years ago to make sure that nappies had the profile within this debate around single use plastics. Because it is quite a difficult one for politicians to discuss. Politicians don't want to be going out there telling parents what they should and shouldn't be doing. But based on the stats that we talked about earlier, it's a really important issue. It can't be a forgotten one.

3.6 billion disposables

One thing that is quite interesting that, if you look at our government, that that they're talking about addressing single use plates, which we throw away 1.1 billion in this country. Coffee cups where we throw away 2.5 billion. But, disposable nappies are 3.6 billion in this country every year, so it is an important subject that that can't be forgotten.

But the problem with governments, especially in our conversations, is they only really understand taxing things and banning things. What we found in our industry, to your point, is that actually it's an education process with reusables. When parents are shown reusable nappies and the benefit, not just from an environment point of view, but from a cost point of view, it’s interesting to see the dramatic change.

Vanuatu

And that’s global. We've done some work in Vanuatu, the islands off the Australian coast. They were the first country in the world two or three years ago to announce a ban on disposable nappies as part of a wider ban on plastics. And there was a real backlash from parents as you would expect. But actually, we helped fund some research, which actually went out into the communities across the islands, to actually show the products, the benefits. Why it would address some of the issues they've got around plastics, 27% of waste in Vanuatu is just disposable nappies and there's no municipal waste dumps – there’s one there's one municipal waste dump in the capital. So out in these islands, they buried them on the beaches, and they get washed out to sea. I mean, it's quite horrendous. The idea that these single use products are going into a country that can't deal with it.

But from an education point of view as a brand they, parents got it. And the acceptance of that and hopefully they will move back to that that idea of a ban. The acceptance from parents was incredible. That change once they understood. So, it is an education process. And governments don't always get that

While you're talking very much about avoiding pollution, and that's an essential part of sustainability. But looking at the other aspect, which is achieving net zero in order to avoid exceeding a 1.5 degree centigrade. How do you feel governments are leading on that, if at all? How optimistic do you feel that we will actually achieve those sorts of targets?

COP26

I think, I was lucky enough to visit COP (26) in in November, and it was very interesting talking to people there who had been involved in in previous COPS. It was very interesting to hear them talk about how swift the move seemed to be. I mean, we may all feel that it's happening quite slowly but the feedback I was getting was actually, those that had been involved, even two or three years ago, the idea that we were even talking about Net Zero three years down the road was, felt to them, like quite a dramatic change. So, I felt there was quite a lot of optimism I think.

Greenwashing

I personally think the biggest challenge is greenwashing which we see in this industry quite a lot. I think it was a lot easier to identify people who denied that this was a problem or an issue and climate change deniers a few years ago because you could really, really call them out because it was obvious. I think what is far more dangerous is the greenwashing and we say it's in this industry from disposable companies.

You talked about the fact that the disposable nappies are made by some of the biggest companies in the world. And obviously they are feeling some consumer pressure and their response to this is to produce what I would term, with my cynical head on – apologies, so called environmentally friendly disposables. Which could be anything, just to have it in green packaging, to give it twee names, to talk about the potential for them being biodegradable or recyclable or compostable. Which in reality is not happening. There's no model that’s shown this ever on scale in terms of being able to recycle and most nappies will end up wrapped in a plastic bag in landfill anyway. So it makes consumers feel better. And I mean, it does make me feel quite angry that consumers who are clearly concerned about the amount of disposable nappies they're throwing away, are being told by these companies “spend two or three times the money on the nappies that you need to buy for your baby and actually you can ease your conscience by doing that”.

And it isn't the solution. It isn't the solution on lots of levels, as I say, because they're going to end up in landfill anyway. So, which is not the right environment for them to biodegrade, and actually using more and more raw materials isn't going to work. But for disposable companies it means they continue to serve those customers and also massively increase their margins because they can charge more money for these for these so-called environmental products just on that biodegradable plastics thing. One of the stats I heard recently which is quite interesting, but because if we were to move back to bioplastics to meet just half a percent of our current requirement for plastic, it would take an area four times the size of London. So, bioplastics are not really long-term feasible solutions.

Looking again at the broad sustainable sustainability perspective. Are you optimistic for the future?

Optimistic?

Yes, I am. And I'm optimistic because I can see, and maybe you may accuse us of sort of sitting in a bit of a bubble here because obviously our customers are very committed and they want to use reusable nappies and they're coming to us. But we can see, having done this for more years than I want to remember, the shift. Certainly, in the last few years has been has been dramatic. And the number of consumers that are interested. It's our responsibility as a brand and a purpose driven brand that just wants to get more people to use reusable nappies, to do that education piece that I'm talking about. To bring consumers.

But it's interesting in the business world again, you touched on it as far as the solution is concerned. But if I go to events, and I'm lucky enough to go to a few awards events, because we have been nominated for awards over the years, and certainly in the last couple of years, I think the most striking thing is the number of companies that I see winning awards for excellence who are addressing some of the SDGs. And actually addressing some of the issues that we've got and these companies are proving to be very successful. So, I think there is huge reasons for optimism.

Guy, thank you very much for talking to the Sustainable Futures Report. Now before you go, you're marketing in the UK and the US. Are you in any other markets across the world?

Finding Renewables

Our main markets and our focus is on Germany, France and the UK. So Germany is our biggest market, that tipped over last year, and then France and UK. And that that sort of accounts for a large part, but we've sold in 50 or so countries, you can buy our products in every country in the world, the joy of the internet. But, our core markets at the moment, where a lot of our focus is, is Germany, France and the UK. But we're available in supermarkets and pharmacies across Europe. Australia is also quite strong for us.

Guy Schanschieff of Bambino Mio. Thank you again for talking to the Sustainable Futures Report.

Thank you very much.

The Wednesday Interview. You can find links on the Sustainable Futures Report website to reports on the problem from the UN and from Zero Waste Europe and an account of the project in Vanuatu that Guy mentioned. At the end of this episode on http://www.sustainablefutures.report you’ll also find links to Bambino Mio and the Nappy Alliance.

A word to my patrons. Thanks to you as always for listening and for your support. I've put up a poll, a very simple question, about the ideal length for a podcast episode. So far there seems to be a fairly strong consensus, but if you haven't put your response in yet please go across to patreon.com/sfr and add your selection.

Friday’s episode about the energy situation had a very positive response. It's been suggested that I should expand the Russia/Ukraine dimension. Do you know anybody who’s qualified to talk on this and on the wider issue of Russia's approach to sustainability and net zero? Get in touch if you do. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. .

That's it for today and there will be another episode as usual on Friday.

I’m Anthony Day.

That was the Wednesday Interview from the Sustainable Futures Report .

Bye for now.

Links

Vanuatu Project

https://www.mammaslaef.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/105/2021/02/FINAL-PilotStudy-FullReport.pdf

Single-use nappies: UN Lifecycle assessment

https://www.lifecycleinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/NAPPIES_-A-summary-for-Decision-Makers_FINAL.pdf

Zero Waste Europe

https://zerowasteeurope.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/bffp_single_use_menstrual_products_baby_nappies_and_wet_wipes.pdf

Bambino Mio